League Champs 2011

[knightyknight]

Johnny,

How does what you just said prove that I know nothing? All I told Gilles was to stop complaining about how the draft is run and if he had an issue with the guys your team picked then talk to you, that its. Im not trying to prove anything or "attack" anyone on here. Im simply ststaing my opinion, if you dont like it dont read it. It's pretty funny how this is a "recreational league" yet everyone is taking this crap so god d**n seriously.

Derek M

[whunter]

After reading all the discussion, I thought I would throw my two cents worth in.

1. The BMFL has always had rules in place to try and achieve parity. This is great. Most major league sports do the same via drafts, salary caps, etc. (baseball and it's bogus salary cap exluded.), but the fact is, there will still be a winner and many losers, a 1st place team and a last place team. Such is sports. The reality is that to achieve parity is virtually impossible, so the best we can do is to make sure we have rules/systems in place that allow teams a chance to be competitive and have hope. I think the BMFL has a done a great job over the years of making sure we have this in place. It is the reason that our league is still strong and healthy and why many other leagues in the city have folded.

2. Despite rules in place as we always "strive" to achieve parity, the human element and luck are also factors. Can you imagine if Electric had picked Jeff Barber with the 2nd pick instead of Luc Dumas? Rej Doiron was the best player in his draft class, but slipped to the middle of the 2nd round. Ryan Chatten entered the draft twice. The first time he was not selected at all in the pitcher draft. The 2nd time, the Knights selected him with the last pick of the pitcher draft. Despite being the best pitcher in his draft class, Jamie Blakely was not the 1st pitcher selected. There are many other examples of luck and and the "human element" that impact on league parity.

3. Player attrition year to year may have the greatest impact on parity. It is very difficult to have a strong team if you have to draft 3 or 4 players. The strong teams generally only have to draft one player each year. John Tremblay is a shrewd manager/coach and brought GOB from the basement to a championship through great drafting/managing, etc, however, the last few years they have lost a lot of players. It is hard to replace a Rej through the draft.

4. Player commitment and/or team organization are other factors that impact on a team's success. I have been on both sides of the fence here. When I first joined the Knights we never knew game to game if we would have enough players. Now we know exactly where everyone is all the time.

5. True, the Guzzlers are pretty dominant with Jeff and Andy, but the fact is that the Guzzlers have been great forever, when the Barbers were in diapers. The is because of many of the reasons in points 2-4 above. Their core players like Rick, Steve, Stew (retired), etc. have always run a well organized team, had little turnover year to year. Their players had fun and wanted to come back.

6. I agree that pitching has an impact on league parity, but I also think that there are many other factors as well and we shouldn't just point our fingers at the pitchers and suggest that we throw them back in the draft every year. We will have to think of the consequences of anything we change. I am certain that some pitchers would simply not come back to the league, just like some players would not come back if they couldn't return to their previous teams. Given the state of the game in general these days we do not want to lose any players. We have no restrictions on pitchers anymore. (ie. Bud joined GOB this year. In the past he was never allowed to join our league). Other good pitchers will join our league and teams that want to strengthen their pitching will have a chance to. The Knights had to be patient and also get lucky to strengthen their pitching as well as the the team in general.

7. One change I do propose is that we make the finals a best of three, not just because the Knights would have won this year had it been this format, but also because it would allow a better chance for a weaker team to pull of an upset.

8. My final point is that we should not take personal shots at each other on this forum. The one common denominator is that we all love the game and want it to survive beyond us. This is a great league and there are a lot of great, committed people that put a lot of effort into keeping this league strong. A healthy exchange of ideas/thoughts is productive, but personal jabs are not.

See you at the banquet!

Wayne

[ballchatter]

Well, guess I stand corrected on how the draft went a few years back. I apologize for that, and the Guzzlers did get some timely hits from all of its players in each playoff game of all three rounds, it was a great team effort, especailly being down 2-1 in the finals.

[rejtable]

Oh man, plus ça change...

So, for a second set of old man reflections, i'll toss in a couple of 2 cents...

One, this thread is a great example of how it is hard to have anything change, or even to reach consensus on whether something "should" change.

I don't have much to add on the ratings thing, I've expressed my opinions on it in the past, and offered up some thoughts on what could be done. I think the league has some very bright and dynamic people around the table, and improvements are within reach.

Dissapointing to see the personal attacks, especially Jeff making fun of the selection of Gary. Clearly, Jeff, you were misinformed about the draft order that year, and that's fine, but there was no reason to basically make fun of a team drafting an older player, and especially not a guy of Gary's character. If everyone in the BMFL was even 10% as classy a guy as Gary was with us ... No matter what happened with his selection, no reason to make snide comments about his age.

For those of us on the outside of the BMFL who may actually stumble on this forum, those kinds of comments certainly don't show well on your league.

That goes for the thread overall. Points can be made and expressed without dragging the league through the mud.

Congrats to all for what sounds like another great season in the BMFL, and kudos to the dudes who run the asylum!

Rej

[groy]

I wonder how many people will read this next post... (407 views so far)

[dm627100]

Hi Fellas,
When I started this thread, my intention was to voice my opinion, as well as some other fans in the stands.
I was hoping that others would discuss it in a civilized manner.There is no need for mudslinging.
It was also my intention that some of these discussions would carry over to the AGM.
I can see from some of the responses that putting all the pitchers into a "Draft" would not be beneficial to the league. However, it is my opinion that something should be done to give parity to the league.
I`ll throw this idea out to you, for (civilized) discussion, here in the Forum or at the AGM.
Abolish the player ratings.A pretty drastic change.
Here is my reasoning.
I played on a team that finished last 8 years in a row.
I`m not complaining about this fact.
I believe that we had the 1st draft pick only once.That top pick turned out to play only 8 games out of the season and we went down 2 straight in the 1st round. This player was not the impact player we expected when we drafted him.As some have said previously, sometimes your lucky and sometimes your not.
Watching teams that finished as high as 3rd picking ahead of a last place team didn`t make any sense to me.
We had a hard time maintaining a "core" of players, as we lost a lot to players wanting to go back into the Draft, so as not be on a losing team.I couldn`t blame them.One year there was only 3 players returning, another I believe it was 5.
I can`t think of any other league, whether professional or recreational, that uses a "Player Rating" system to Draft.Other than the 'Lottery",the NHL,NBA,MLB all draft based on the standings from the previous year.
The last place team picks 1st and the 1st place team picks last.
Over the course of a few years the last place team would start to climb the standings with the the top place team place starting to fall towards the bottom.
One good example is the Pittsburgh Penguins that finished last a few years in a row and drafted Fleury,Crosby,Malkin and ended up moving up to the top and then winning the Stanley Cup.Another example is the Chicago Blackhawks.
Abolishing the "Player Ratings" takes the pressure off the Team Reps.
Each year the Team Reps sit down and discuss the ratings of every player in the league.
Each year, the Team reps (myself included, for over 18 years) attempted to lower the ratings of their own players so that their "Team Average" would be lowered so that they would move up in the Draft positioning.
It would go like this; The Team Rep would say that player A should be moved down by 1/2 -to as much as 1 -1/2 points because his hitting was way down last year, or his defence was poor or he`s lost a step or two, or if it was a pitcher well, he wasn`t as effective as previously.This process is similar to a GM, who is in an arbitration meeting, telling the judge or arbitrator all the bad things about his player, in order to get a smaller contract.
I`m throwing this out there because I think the league should try to have more parity.I have nothing against the Guzzlers or the Knight's.If you have 2 teams always well ahead of the rest, in this case the Guzzlers and the Knights(the names could be different) for the past 5 years I think that something needs to change.
Hopefully this promotes some civilized discussion in this forum or at the AGM.
Speaking, as a former player, now spectator, who wants to see the league survive and thrive.
To all players of the BMFL: if you want to make a change or not, go to the AGM.
You have a voice and you have a vote.
Dennis

[knightyknight]

Hey Guys,

You know what? I'm going to agree with Dennis. The player rating system is not working, it should be abolished as of this year. Starting from the 2012 draft 8th place should pick 1st and 1st picks last. However, the draft should be a snake style draft.

What do you think?

[nick22]

Hey guys,

I believe the player rating system can work, but team reps need to have the integrity to make it work and not try to protect their own players. It shouldn't be about protecting our own players so that we can get a better pick, it should be about getting an accurate rating. Yes, some players will play better against certain pitchers, but it shouldn't equal to a large difference from team rep to team rep. If that were the case, everyone would be 5 hitters against me! Rej brought up a good point, we need to keep the forum respectful.

One of the issues that has to get addressed is that a player's ranking should not be based on reputation. We base it on the previous season, unless it was an odd one due to injury. Some players are getting older and even though their names are feared by the pitchers, their play on the field doesn't back up that fear.

My last point, we need to integrate the standings but that can not be the sole evaluation. Why you ask? Well, would you use regular season or playoff rankings? What if Team A's best player got hurt but is coming back next year? What if team B's best player had to miss the playoff because of work? That's why we need to incorporate the rankings and not have it as the sole rating system.

You use the previous season's ratings like a player. It could look something like this:
regular season ratings: 1-2 = 2 points, 3-4 = 1.5, 5-6 = 1, 7-8 = 0.5
Playoff ratings: first = 2, second = 1.5, out in semis = 1, out in first round = 0.5
I have not made any calculations but the Guzzlers would have 4 points added while the Cleaners would have 1. I have not tested anything out yet but I will do so before the AGM to see how much it would affect the ratings and possibly make some adjustments.

Keep up the off-season chatter!

Nick